The Sarabite: Towards an Aesthetic Christianity

There is a continuous attraction, beginning with God, going to the world, and ending at last with God, an attraction which returns to the same place where it began as though in a kind of circle. -Marsilio Ficino

Monday, July 16, 2007

New Blog


The Anastasis Dialogue is a new blog from the monks of Holy Resurrection Monastery. Please read it and add it to your links pages if you also have the vice of blogging.

15 Comments:

At 10:51 PM, Anonymous Mark Kasper said...

If I am a currently Latin Rite Catholic.
and
I change rites to an Eastern Rite in full communion with Rome.
and
I get married.
(my change of rites is sincere but not based on ethnic roots but a desire for the more mystery, liturgy and icon based spirituality)
Feel a true call to the Priesthood.

CAN I BECOME A MARRIED CATHOLIC (in full union with Rome) PRIEST?
even if I was formerly Latin Rite

Do Eastern Rite priests ever celebrate the Latin Rite (either Novus Ordo or any other Rite the Tridentine or Sarum or anything else in the Latin Rite)?
I do know some Latin Rite priests (I can think of 2 Jesuits) who have faculties in (the) Eastern Rite(s).

Do the American Bishops still have a ban on married priests in the Ruthenian (Byzantine) "Rusyn" Catholic "churche(s)" dating back to Archbishop Ireland v Alexis Toth?

 
At 11:03 PM, Blogger Pseudo-Iamblichus said...

Mr. Kasper,

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but don't bet on it. While I know former Latin rite Catholics who are married priests, jumping from one rite to another just to get ordained is something that both sui generis Churches frown upon. Indeed, I even think that many make a change of rite conditional on agreeing not to seek Holy Orders.

Besides, the ethos of the priesthood in both traditions is radically different. If one is to change rites (having done it, I DON'T recommend it) one should do it because one genuinely loves the rite of that sui generis church. And one should love and respect the tradition of clerical celibacy in the Latin Church, just as one should respect the limited clerical marriage allowed in the Eastern Churches. And one should also concede, as a Byzantine Catholic, that what separates the rites are barely significant externals whose soul belongs to every ecclesial tradition if one digs deep enough.

But that is just my two cents.

 
At 12:08 AM, Anonymous Mark Kasper said...

But is it possible?

and

do you have answers to my other questions?

God Bless,

KM

 
At 12:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Forgive my ignorance and my surfing of your blog.
BUT...
Are you Mexican?
and aren't almost all Mexicans Latin Rite Roman Catholics?
and a historical, cultural affection for that rite?
The only Eastern Rite Catholics I met in Mexico were Arabs and claimed non Arab Phoenician Lebanese Maronites (and some Orthodox and Greeks but less so)

Were you Orthodox at one time?
(as in Eastern Christian Orthodox)

I believe in the concept of the Pope but I cannot stand
1. the liberal approach of most parishes (albeit some nice people) of gymnasium churches, protestant like liturgies etc
BUT
2. Many of the so called traditionalists are rigid, unfriendly, paranoid (not all), lack charity, lack humility, lack a pastoral sense and graciousness
and view tradition as some family heirloom that may be stolen and should not be shared. Although certainly they have a more beautiful Mass. I love Tradition but just not many of the Traditionalists and their hatred and bitterness (broad I know but I am trying to make a point)

I loved the last Pope (John Paul II)--even with the pedophile thing which his administrative or lack of had to have some responsibility
and
some of the traditionalist criticisms of Assisi, Liturgy, excommunication of Lefebvre et al--which may have a point

I miss a sense of community and this internet board of you, and the Western Confucist, Conservative Blog for Peace, the Oco-something or other, and others are not a subsititute for personal interaction of people of shared faith or even searchers for God and all the words you mention in your first post of the day.
Although the internet, and your blog and some others do have a lot of content.

 
At 6:42 AM, Blogger Pseudo-Iamblichus said...

Mr. Kasper,

Most Byzantine rite jurisdictions in this country do not OPENLY ordain married men. The Melkites and Ukrainians are more lenient about it, while the Byzantine Catholic Metropolia is still very cautious when it comes to ordaining married men. I don't believe that they accept married candidates into their seminary. They might some day soon, but not now. On the books, the Byzatine rite jurisdictions are still not allowed to have a married clergy in this country.

In the end, the only way to know is to gradually get involved in one of these churches and speak to the clergy and bishops about it.

Anon.

The answer is that I did change rites a few years back, but the reasons I did it are no longer relevant. Indeed, I go to Latin-rite churches now since those are the only ones available in my area, and Byzantine Christianity no longer consumes my interest.

I was never Orthodox, but I did think about becoming Orthodox at some point.

I sympathize with your other concerns. You are very right that this and other electronic pages cannot substitute for a real community. I think we all are in the same boat on this one.

 
At 7:30 AM, Blogger Pseudo-Iamblichus said...

Mr. Kasper,

One more point: Eastern rite clergy can have bi-ritual faculties. They have to petition to get them, and it often is not very hard.

 
At 11:42 AM, Blogger Sean said...

The Romanian Catholic Eparchy in this country ordains married men quite openly, I think.

 
At 9:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could one than change rites to the Romanian Catholic Eparchy
than become a married Catholic priest?

 
At 8:55 PM, Anonymous Jose Vasconcelos said...

How do you reconcile your ""Hispanic" asumedly Mexican identity with your Eastern Rite rite membership and dabbling with the Eastern Orthodox Churches?
It seems out of place historically and culturally?
Am I wrong?

 
At 8:25 AM, Blogger Pseudo-Iamblichus said...

Mr. Vasconcelos,

This post and this post might be helpful in answering your questions.

 
At 9:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Pseudo-iamblichus,

I get a lot out of your website. You are interesting. The website is well written. You have a lot of good content and links.
You seem very sincere in your spiritual life and struggle.
You can be very profound and deep and you have given me a lot of food for thought.

However, it is hard to understand your own path (and maybe it is not me to understand). I think it is understandable in this modern era to be a searcher--and there are certain underpinnings in your travels but it seems that you have gone many different places while coming back to the (Roman) Catholic Church. Am I reading you wrong?

You started out Roman Catholic (Mexican?) with a charismatic family influence and somewhat superstitious Grandma?

You were a Marxist????? devout and active with a mind control community?

You were a SSPX seminarian who still has profound respect for Archbishop Williamson(erudite, interesting, less rigid than some members saying Mass in socks and sandals)???? (at least you had some good masses)

You changed Rites to become Eastern Rite Catholic??
But you think it was a bad move and go to Latin Rite Mass and sacraments.

You were an Anglican??? (that one I really don't get)

You criticize the SSPX and like crowd for being too arrogant and not recognizing human nature and the sincere and pious nature of the great masses of sincere Catholics badly singing at mediocre masses yet still seem to focus on aesthetic issues?

You were an Anglican, thought about converting to Eastern Orthodoxy yet are very pro the recent Vatican statements on the Nature of the Church??

You go to a Coptic monastery (Monosphytism???)? for spiritual refuge?

NOW, I do not think that this is as contradictory as it seems but it is interesting and at least begs for an explanation (not just one that you have to read the succession of Blogs)
Besides the Marxist origins or interlude from childhood Catholicism it seems that:
1. You truly desire God.
2. You desire God through Jesus.
3. You desire Jesus through Church and Liturgy.
4. You recognize the importance of Beauty and Liturgy and Beauty in the Liturgy although not their absolute pre-eminence in salvation and being a good Christian(Catholic?Anglican?Orthodox?--all who share a sense of sacraments, apostolic succession, liturgy etc)
5. Spiritual life is a journey that takes us unexpected places.
6. All your paths (besides Marxism) have been about God, Jesus, the "Church", Liturgy, with common elements.
7. You are smart, well educated, curious, well read, and a good writer so your thoughts are sometimes deep or may come across to erudite.
8. I still don't understand the cultural thing of a Mexican doing the Byzantine Catholic thing let alone the Anglican thing.
9. I may understand the Coptic thing as a group under persecution, very early Christian roots etc--but not easy to understand.
10. Don't understand the Marxist thing at all.
11. The SSPX thing can be understandable but their politics are whacked and there is a certain cultish element to some but they have a point on aesthetics, traditional devotions but their focus on Assisi and religious liberty is not right from my thinking.
12. You seem sincere.

Can you tie the themes together?

 
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