De amor y rosas
Poema LXIV
De amar mucho tienes
la palabra que persuade,
la mirada que vence
y que turba...
De amar mucho
dejas en torno tuyo,
y el que pasa cerca
y se huele el
perfume en el pecho,
viene a creer que
tiene la rosa dentro...
-Dulce Maria Loynaz
(Of loving you very much have
The word that persuades,
The gaze that conquers
And troubles...
Of loving you have
Much surrounding you,
And he who passes by closely
And smells the perfume in the chest,
Comes to believe that
He has a rose within.)
posted by Arturo Vasquez @ 7:27 AM
19 Comments:
On a somewhat unrelated note:
What do you think of
Hilarion Alfeyev
I don't know his title but I mean no disrespect to him
I think Bishop or Patriarch
His comments on ecumenicism?
His reflections on Christ's descent into Hades?
Can you love beautiful women (like look at them) and admire the human body and stil be a good Christian?
Can I get a dispensation for being promiscuis (with women as a man)?
Kiril,
I am sorry, I have to plead ignorance concerning this prelate. Maybe you can educate me on the issues involved.
Anon. #1
Yes.
Anon. #2
I hope that you are joking.
If I could still get hot beautiful women and be a Traditional Catholic, well, than I AM IN!!!!
The beautiful Latin Mass, Gregorian Chant, praying the Rosary--we can even throw in some Eastern Icons etc.
El Greco, Michaelangelo Pieta, Bernini's ectasy
Vestments, art, architecture, protocol
I am down with ALL of that.
Generally I want to act moral, respect my parents, don't kill anyone, don't steal, and help people--I can do a couple hours of tutoring or soup kitchen or something like that. I think it is more respectful to kiss the ring of the archbishop not the American handshake. Big family dinners on Sunday and being nice to mom to obey the commandmnets.
Pro-life on abortion. No homosexual stuff with men.
So besides physical involvement with women (more than one) I can live the whole Christian ethics thing.
INCARNATION
BUT, I can't be with just one woman. I love the female human form, and like the theology with icons--after the incarnation--nature is sanctified--thus the Jewish custom of veiling and being more puritanical is only before the incarnation.
AESTHETIC BEAUTY
Just I can love to look at Michangelo's Pieta or Bernini's Ectasy of St. Teresa of Avila or admire a painting of El Greco or Salvador Dali--I can also admire a beautiful women including parts that everyone sees but may not be appropriate to specifically and explicitly mention on a religious spiritual website. The female body is God's Creation. I love to look at it, touch it, celebrate it.
STOPPING GREATER SIN
Involvement with women prohibits a greater sin, called an abomination, of homosexuality. I would celebrate if I heard about a priest with a woman--a scandal of years past and not a homosexual or worse an abomination. I can undertand the priest straying with a beautiful late teen or twenty something.
PRECEDENT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
The Old Testament (as well as some Protestant and Mormon Churches in Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon) Patriarchs like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (some of the greatest in Monotheistic history)were POLYGAMOUS. They even had concubines and saw prostitutes (Onan). So there is biblical precedence to more than one women either like Muslims in the marital context or concubines and prostitution like the Old Testament Patriarchs.
THE EXAMPLE OF KING DAVID
The sin of David (re: Baathsheba) is not so much that he slept with Baathsheba but that she was already married and that he KILLED his greatest battlelord Uriah.
I cannot justify that he killed Uriah, but you can't really fault him for looking at the beautiful naked woman taking a bath on the roof--I would take a look too--and your probably would also.
FEMALE NOT THE SAME AS MALE
Female homosexuality (Lesbianism), threesomes (as the French say menage trois) (which I do enjoy myself) is NOT as explicitly condemned as male on male homosexuality. The original Greek and Hebrew is not as clear on FEMALE on FEMALE beautiful interaction. Female interaction is NOT sodomy and would not be considered an abomination by the Bible nor the traditional St. Joseph's Baltimore Catechism.
You do not see women looking at two men together. There is a certain naturalness of women together (ultimately for and with a man). It is safer to experiment with. It is not as dirty, unhealthy or as unsafe as male on male homosexuality which I fully agree with the Bible and the Church on.
MORE CONVERTS
You would get more converts, especially in this cultural context, if you allowed--at least before marriage--males to have more than one woman in a physical way. The beauty of looking at them, talking to them, flirting with them, seducing them, and finally consumating a natural and enjoyable act that the ectasy derived (and given in an act of selflessness) is a foretaste of pleasure and joy in heaven possibly.
More young men would come to the Church. If you allowed involvement with women--it would even decrease the sin (probably more psychological and habitual without women) of Onan which is still condemned by Traditional Catholics and Orthodox.
EAST AND WEST
This could also cause ecuminism. The influx of Eastern European women from former communist countries has caused an increase in awareness of different cultures.
These women, on the whole are beautiful, and much more slender than American women. To have and to hold these women even if in a physical and non permanent way could do well to bridge East and West to learn more and cause intercultural dialogue.
Mr. Villa-Lobos Ramirez,
Okay... I don't moderate comments on this blog, so I will let that stand as is.
The Old Testament figures were polygamous.
You might get more converts. This was an issue with African tribal chieftans in converting who had multiple wives.
However, the East-West relations I just don't get.
He may be kidding but I think Sr. Ramirez has a point. It is logical.
Is this really an argument for:
1. Polygamy
2. pre-marital sex or even fornication and promiscuity?
3. looking with lust at a women?
4. impure thoughts
5. female homosexuality for male satisfaction
ALL based on ridiculous, illogical, a-historical, certainly facetious and sarcastic theological, philosophical and cultural arguments.
Purity
"Without me," says the Lord, "you can do nothing."
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me," writes St. Paul
The front page of the Chicago Sun Times has a story about a priest who stole money from his parish and gave it to a male stripper pretty boy. He also facilitated a gay prostitute liason.
I would relish in the days that priests would have affairs with women and not other men (an abomination) and children (a sin that cries to Heaven for justice, may they drown with the weight of their sin).
I am tired of talk of purity when our Church has so much scandal.
Even God, I don't understand why he gave us such a strong natural desire and allowed the culture to have such a psychological and sociological influence. Again, for natural sex and the evils of homosexuality or pedophilia.
God forgave David and he killed another man, more than killed but murdered.
If I want to partake of the flesh of a beautiful woman without murder and never even think about children--am I not far more sanctified.
The above posts are correct about the Old Testament Patriarchs having polygamy, mistresses and prostitutes. Yet our modern man is supposed to remain celibate and than be with one woman--something emperically is not possible.
If polygamy and promiscuity were allowed the Catholic Church could convert rappers like 50 cent, Akon, Ludicras and Twista.
The Ghetto Boyz have a sense of the psychological bordering on Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. Have you heard Mind of a lunatic?? My minds playing tricks on me??? If that aint a Dark Night of the Soul I don't know what is.
Snoop Doggy Dog has helped baseball teams for kids and football teams and has done much good of helping others and treating your neighbor as yourself.
Snoop Dog is not divorced and is a good father. Marijuana is no worse than alcohol if not better.
Too Short don't got nothing on the great Medici or Borgia Popes. There is no rap about the Banquet of the Chestnuts dedicated to the son of the Pope mentioned above.
These Popes, Bishops, Priests were PLAYAHS--and they contributed to great art and architecture and music and were learned men and did the Traditional Latin Mass (before and after Trent) that was more beautiful, in Latin, reverent, with some good music.
So one can be knowing Latin, going to a Traditional Latin Mass, having beautiful music and art around and STILL BE A PLAYAH.
Too Short (with the exception possibly of being Black but Alexander the VI did have Turkish pashas in his party crew) would of hung around with these Latin speaking and praying prelates with the best music and art.
Some of the family stuff of Eminem like Mocking Bird ain't struggles dealing with family life?
Some of the same stuff in the writings of Pope John Paul II?
The celebration of life that 50 cent or Nelly have is not a sign of the incarnation. Much better than the nihilisitic alternative music of Oregon and Washington states and those whacked out white kids. Life and love and enjoying life.
Tupac's Dear Mama doesn't have Marian and family things very profound for most of us.
Kanye West's Jesus walks more explicit of the Gospel mold or the Diamonds of Sierra Leone with a video of beautiful Catholic cathedrals, crucixes, statues of St. Michael and an appeal to stop the trade of blood diamonds ravaging parts of Africa.
Anon.,
U trippin'
"Eight years on the mike and Im not jokin
Sir too short comin straight from oakland"
"Sir" Too Short--he is a monarchist also with a sense of hierarchy and benevolent dicatorship in the true Catholic SSPX tradition
Next thing Too Short will be at a SSPX chapel with Mel Gibson asking to restore the Habsburg dynasty
I am assuming that the Sarabite did not learn too short at the SSPX seminary, the Byzantine monastery or the Coptic monastery.
The Anglicans are too elitist, WASPy and psuedo erudite to even know who Too Short is.
Zenit put out a story that Pope Benedict XVI prefers the Ghetto Boyz because of their more reverent style and reflective nature.
SSPX only listens to classic rap, nothing after the death of Tupac or Biggie. They feel the Chronic was the premiere rap album of all time and that nothing has changed, developed or gotten better. Eazy E, Grand Master P, Grand Master Flash and Run DMC are all included but any late 90s and anything after the turn of the Millenium is excluded from the SSPX rap canon.
They are very critical that John Paul II listend to Kanye and Nelly and some Polish Novus Ordo rappers.
U hella trippin' now
The Chronic is very good, but I also gotta give props to the 2001 album.
Bishop Williamson does not listen to any rap past the Chronic. He also does the Chronic in Latin but will allow it for members of the St. Josaphat society in Russian and Old Slavonic. He does exclude the swap meet flea market non lyrical conversations as non canonical with the exception of the reference to Halle Berry. SSPX Williamson claims the Chronic is on par with Gregorian Chant or Mozart's Requiem. No rap after the Chronic.
The saintly late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre liked the Sugar Hill gang and Gil Scott Heron. Despite some fasisct and monarchist leanings, the good Archbishop loved "The Revolution Will not be Televised" by Gil Scott Heron.
The current rappers are Novus Ordo venacular speaking heretics. Current Rap is an example of the problems of venacular dialect.
At least most rappers condemn homosexuality. Also most rappers also have a sense of hierarchy which could be analogized to monarchy.
English Professor Dr. David Allen White is now teaching the lyrics of Biggie Small alongside Moby Dick and Brideshead Revisited at the SSPX seminary and the Annapolis Naval Academy.
funny
at first LOL
but a little played out
i am surprised that PI knows so much rap
where did he listen to it in between the SSPX seminary and Byzantine monastic life?
maybe the Anglicans played it
Comparing Evelyn Waugh to Biggie Smalls was good.
Rap is wayyyyyyy to decadent and hedonisitc.
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